Sarah (00:00)
Hi everybody, my name is Sarah Zagorski and I’m the Communications Director for Louisiana Rate to Life. I’m really excited about this episode of the Pro-Life Pod as I have my friend here, Dr. David Reardan, who has done a ton of work understanding the abortion-minded woman and the after effects of abortion. So welcome to the show,Dr. Reardan. I wanted to say hello and introduce yourself.

David Reardon (00:20)
Yeah, Hi. Thank you, Sarah. That’s my focus is research and education on the after effects of abortion.

Sarah (00:27)
When I first started in the pro-life movement back in, let’s see, 2012, his material was one of the first material I began to read. His research on abortion coercion, his research on the impact abortion has

Published I think what I’ve read online is that you’ve published over 30 peer reviewed studies as well as many books on the topic of abortion and how abortion impacts women I think it was even a New York Times columnist who said that you were the blame to point out that women are actually better off without abortion. Essentially is what they were saying and abortion hurts them. So yeah, I just wanted to hear a little bit about first what led you into this area of academic research and study when it comes to the abortion decision.

David Reardon (01:13)
Well, I got involved back in 1982 when I read about Nancy Jo Mann was the first post-reported woman to start a peer support group for other women. She’d been through a difficult abortion experience. She went through a conversion and found healing and felt other women needed healing too. She began giving talks around the country and I just felt like it was important.

A little discussed aspect of, how does abortion actually affects women and how do they find healing because most of the arguments are about politics or religion but not just the practical what do women go through and how do they heal and so I just wanted to help tell that story.

Sarah (01:47)
And then, in that research, did you find that there are other women like that specific example?

David Reardon (01:51)
Yeah, I mean, that’s where it started was I just studied the women who were participating in those groups. And then after listening to them, I began a survey of women, random sample of women around the country asking about the reproductive health experiences. And that study showed that women who had abortion were more likely to have substance abuse afterwards when there’d been no history of substance abuse prior.

Our most recent studies, are doing national random surveys of women and getting very clear results that only about one-third of them describe their abortions as freely chosen and in accord with their own preferences. For the others, they’re usually acting, for nearly 70 % women, they’re acting contrary to their preferences because of the pressures they face from other people or circumstances.

That’s strongly correlated to more negative outcomes. And as you mentioned, coercion, we know, 10 % of all the women describe their abortions as coerced. So the level of pressure is so great that they determine as coercion, which we know from a lot of examples can include beatings and threats and, all kinds of different levels of coercion. A lot of the pressures to abort are more subtle.

The fact that there’s any coerced abortions, of course, is a tragedy. But we have, in my view, a national crisis, an epidemic of unwanted abortions, where any abortion that’s contrary to women’s preferences is really an unwanted abortion.

Sarah (03:16)
you

Yeah, I think your most recent research in 2023 indicated that 70 % are unwanted and of those some are coerced abortions. Could you talk about a little bit about what you’ve learned, suppose, the woman that is in that situation, the abortion vulnerable woman, what kind of, you would say, makes women abortion vulnerable?

David Reardon (03:44)
Well, probably one of very first ones is just lack of support from loved ones, from male partner, from family, friends, even coworkers, every woman deserves and every child deserves a woman is pregnant for people to be, hey, that’s great, we’re around here to help out. But instead,  young women will get, parents, boyfriends, boyfriends, parents, friends and family who are acting like, obviously you need to have an abortion. And so just withdrawing from support is a pressure towards abortion. In fact, I think it’s important as a great example is sometimes there’s miscommunication. Sometimes a young man is willing to be committed and be there and wants to have the baby and wants to commit to love, but he’s kind of semi-trained by society to say, well, what do you want to do?

Well, when she says I’m pregnant he doesn’t want to force his views on her. So what do you want to do?

She hears I’m not committed.

And sometimes literally that becomes just the miscommunication where the guy’s trying to just be supportive and where she needs to hear, ⁓ I’m full in, we can do this, you know? So, that’s very subtle view perception of, support that’s being withheld.

So, but he feels like he has to say, well, what do you want to do? And he’s trying to be responsive, she perceives that as lack of support as lack of enthusiasm and so there are actually tragic cases. In fact,  an interview of journalists at abortion clinic to the girl saying I would have kept this baby if he’d wanted it and while she’s having the abortion He said I would have been so happy to have this baby if she’d wanted it. They’d never really communicated about it. So that’s kind of perceived lack support.

But then you have overt pressure that women can face from boyfriends or others pushing towards the abortion. And again, she interviewed an abortion counselor who said that when she has a young woman saying, I really want to have this baby, but my parents are wanting me to have the abortion, that counselor, instead of saying to the parents, don’t push her into an abortion, gets on the side of the parents telling the girl, well, you’re not really ready to be a good mother yet. You don’t have a job. But basically tearing down her self-esteem.

Saying you’d be a better parent in the future and basically helping to push towards the abortion. That’s another form of coercion that can take place by the abortion counselors.

Sarah (06:05)
Yeah, and of course their industry is just intent on making more money rather than helping that woman in need.

And I think,  that those are subtle examples of coercion. I’ve been thinking about this a lot. I published on this in 22 about the different types of coercion that I see. I see like overt coercion, And then overt coercion as forcing someone. And this is what people imagine in their mind when they’re thinking about abortion, right? They’re thinking about the boyfriend driving the woman to the abortion clinic with a gun to her head. But coercion doesn’t have to look that way to be equally coercive in other ways.

One example, even here in Louisiana, a way in which we see coercion show up again, is there was a minor in West Baton Rouge where her mother’s gave her an ultimatum that if she didn’t take the abortion pills that she had provided, ultimately that she would dot dot dot. The literature doesn’t say yet what that ultimatum was, but if I were to imagine it is something like you cannot live in my house anymore, you don’t have my support anymore, and unfortunately that young girl gave birth in her bathroom and then we have a situation where the mother’s been indicted, and the New York doctor.

But in situations like that, we have much more complex things at play, especially in a family dynamic when a child and a mother are in a relationship or a boyfriend and girlfriend are in relationship. We have intimate partners who are involved with each other. The dynamics just look a little bit different and control and power can look a little bit different as well. So I just wanted to see if you could speak to some of those other coercive factors at play, like for example, threats of housing, threats to kick someone out, threats to exploit a secret the other person has or threats to remove support of any kind from a person. Have you seen examples like that in the women you’ve interviewed or in the studies you’ve found?

David Reardon (07:54)
Well, absolutely. mean, there’s countless cases of just withholding support, emotional support or financial support, housing. ⁓ One young woman reported how mean, she’d seen videos of developing babies and she just knew she was going to have a baby. She goes home and tells her mom, I’m pregnant, but I’m going to have this baby. And then she wrote and my mom changed my life with five words.

Her mother said, “where will you live?” I mean, 15 year old girl is expecting, that things are kind of go out of the way, but suddenly it’s like, boom, if you do this, you’re all out on your own. And that’s terrifying , that’s a form of subtle coercion. Now on the more extreme ends of coercion, and this is a very important statistic is the number one cause of maternal death among women of reproductive age is homicide among pregnant women.

So women who are pregnant and don’t want to have the abortions sometimes are putting their lives at risk if they’re with a very violent partner who have histories of harassing, constantly pushing towards the abortion, threats of physical violence, but also actual violence. So yes, there’s the whole spectrum of the type of coercion women face. Now, a big thing, and I’ve talked to you about this. Sarah, the big thing for me is, there’s laws to try to make it illegal for anybody to coerce on somebody into abortion, but anyone who’s powerful enough to coerce them into abortion, they’re not going to be announcing it at the abortion clinic. So what really ends up is, in my view, is the responsibility, belongs on the abortion providers to screen for, according to the APA, any perceived pressure to abort. So it doesn’t have to be actually any legal definition of any pressure to abort, but the woman feels pressure to abort, whether from other people or from circumstances, just I’m too poor.

That’s the kind of pressure. Screening for, are you doing this freely because you want to or because you feel like you have to? That’s a very simple question and you know, open up all kinds of things. But the abortion clinics don’t do the screening because they, first off, they don’t actually do screening or counseling. They do like 10, 15 minutes, here’s how abortion works kind of discussion rather than the real job, which should be according to all of the medical ethics is screening and counseling and decision-making helping to determine is the abortion more likely to benefit or hurt this patient. And we know for 70 % of women, there are very clear evidence that’s more likely to hurt them and there’s lots of clear signs that’s going to hurt them. Abortion clinics face no liability under most laws for negligent screening.

Sarah (10:29)
One of the things too that we talked about is it takes a woman, some time afterwards, if she makes that abortion decision, to come to realize that she was even coerced in the first place, because sometimes she doesn’t realize that she was even coerced in that first place. Could you speak to why that might be? Because I think a lot of people don’t understand, because the dynamics of coercion are complex. I know many women who tell me, I didn’t regret my abortion until 15 years later when I had spent a lot of time healing and recovering, and realized that this decision led to a lot of my mental health problems, physical problems I didn’t even recognize was related to that abortion decision.

David Reardon (11:03)
Yeah, it’s very hard to recognize all the ramifications at the time. As you said, sometimes you’re not quite aware of the pressures you face. It just, you know, it feels like, you know, we can’t afford to have a baby. So that’s a form of pressure, but it seems a logical form of pressure, right? So you’re treating it as a logical decision. So in a certain sense, even for women who freely choose to have an abortion, very often their heart says no, but their mind says, it’s the only logical thing to do, right?

And the big part of lie is a lot of people imagine that abortion is a time machine. It’s going to turn back the clock and your life will go on the way it was before. So as soon as that mindset, as part of the mindset that I’m just going to, the parents who forced their young daughter to have an abortion think they’re just going to

get a redo and her life will go on as if it never happened. But the problem is once you’re pregnant you’re already the mother of a child. It’s going to be a living child or a dead child and you have to live with that. So you can take it as Dr. Vince Rue said, you can take a baby out of a woman’s womb but you can’t take it out of her mind. That’s the ramifications are vast and the pressures are many and variety, the temptation to think that abortion will fix my problems or fix my daughter’s problems or girlfriend, know, it just multiplies many more problems than it ever solves.

Sarah (12:28)
Absolutely. Do you think that this is new, I would say like this post-Roe era where we have abortion distributors on the market online, countless of them, you can just go on your computer and order abortion pills in small quantities or in bulk. Do think that puts this issue more front and center and more, girls and women at risk in a sense?

David Reardon (12:49)
Oh, it definitely puts them at more risk because obviously those coursing parties, I mean, as you mentioned, there’s examples of people who are getting these drugs and forcing them on women. Obviously, sex trade people are taking their victims and exploiting them sexually and then forcing abortions on them. So, yes, it certainly increases the risk that people face. And again, it points to, in my view, the misoprostol manufacturers distributors doctors they have to be held accountable for the absence of the screening counseling that should be taking place with every medical procedure.

Let me just give you a quick example you know many viewers have had LASIK surgery, to improve their eye sight and that’s a purely elective procedure, but did you know that the ophthalmologist turned away about 20 % of patients coming in because they want LASIK because after they look at their eyeball, they say for whatever reasons, you’re not going to get good results. So they only do lasix on people who they can confidently believe based on good science, are likely to get good results from this and the risks are low. Abortion clinics don’t turn away 20 % of the patients because they know much less 70 % of the patients saying, you’re not going to get good results. They do the abortion, they don’t do the screening counseling, they don’t do what real doctors do, which is to protect patients from dangerous procedures, even if the patient thinks they want it even the patients being told they have to have it by other people the point is massive medical fraud and negligence that is the leading cause of abortion in the United States

Sarah (14:22)
And part of this is partially the fact that we’ve had Roe as law of the land for nearly 50 years. So this culture is saturated in this belief system, this situation where women need abortion to be free and abortion delivers that freedom to them. And that lie has been going on for so long. So unraveling that lie is part of it because a lot of times, it’s my understanding is that when women walk into those doors, and I’ve heard from many women that they’re in a crisis situation. And in a crisis situation, it’s very hard to make a sound decision to begin with, just being in a crisis.

David Reardon (14:58)

I was just going to say that I think it’s important to realize that unregulated access to abortion is a double-edged sword. For the woman who freely wants an abortion, never has any moral doubts, never wanted to be a mother or whatever, it makes it easier for her to get an abortion. It also makes it easier to push women in unwanted abortions. Because there’s no regulation, there’s no limits, there’s no screening, there’s no counseling.

And of course, it is intentional because for the population controllers, the eugenicists, the social engineers who want to target the poor and reduce the welfare rolls by killing the babies of poor women, they want to reduce all the hurdles. In fact, the cost of abortion is kept artificially low. I mean, if you do any of these tools for looking at the costs of what medical procedures should be.

The cost of treating a miscarriage is like $4,000 for first trimester miscarriage. But abortion is like $400. And that’s because it’s subsidized by the population controllers, these big foundations and others that are intent on lowering any obstacles to abortion they want to be quickly available. So basically, when buying, they want easier for people to be pushed into it.

That’s one of reasons they don’t provide counseling, they know women are always stressed out. They don’t want to disturb the stress that they’re facing. So a woman who’s inside saying, I really don’t want to do this, they don’t want to talk about that because we don’t want to change your mind. Let’s just keep moving forward. That’s the funnel that’s designed to push women into abortion and take advantage of the pressures women face rather than help them escape the pressures that they face.

Sarah (16:33)
Right, I realized that early on that the client tell that they, would say advertise to, right? We know that statistically speaking that the women who choose abortion are largely economically poor. So they’re largely already in situations of economic distress, you could call it. A lot of them are minority women who face different types of prejudices in their lives. They’re usually women who may be married or not married, but they’re facing some kind of violence in their home. These are all things we know about the woman already walking into that clinic door that’s choosing abortion if they have some kind of vulnerability that unfortunately the abortion industry has utilized for their profit and just said, we have a solution for you and you can do that by just taking it now, ordering these abortion pills online and quote getting rid of this problem in your life. When the unfortunate reality is after that abortion many women suffer in silence or they suffer and have repeat abortions which is also very common for women who has one abortion. Those women are most likely to have another abortion.

So this is something that’s very concerning to me, especially in Louisiana where we call what we have here an abortion pill epidemic. You can go on any device, can get it, just the click of a button, you can order abortion pills, you can get them from your friends off the street through technology like Snapchat and these sort of things, which is just very, very dangerous for women and girls here. And as like you said, if there’s a woman, for example, who is very set on that abortion decision, and statistically speaking, that’s more rare, but we do have that category of women. For the rest of them, this puts them in a very precarious situation in which anything can be perceived as a pressure to push them towards an abortion decision. A friend telling them, you know, you’re not going to do this, you’re in high school, a parent saying, you can’t live here anymore, these sort of things. So I guess another question would be, what do you find to be the most effective ways for the pro-life movement to mitigate these concerns and to make changes?

To help women in these situations. I know you said going after the abortion industry, making them responsible for those screenings as one main way to target the target and get help.

David Reardon (18:40)
Yeah, think legislatively, I’ve always believed that that’s the most effective thing we can do is to give women. You have to extend the statute of limitations to bring suits because as you said, shame and grief that women face on average, it takes women 10 years to recover. Someone who’s been through post-abortion healing is a much more competent plaintiff than a person who’s only had abortion two years ago and is easily shamed.

I mean it’s very parallel to the difficulties that a woman who’s a victim of rape to testify in court about her experiences. Its emotional and difficult and shame filled, so we need to extend the statute of limitations and perhaps most importantly we need to allow suits for emotional injury following an abortion because under the law you cannot sue for emotional injury without physical injury normally. So you have to carve out a special circumstance that because of this and put that statute into law, that you have to screen for these known risk factors. Make it so you don’t have to find an expert who does it because normally, you have to bring in another doctor who is unbiased and it says oh they did wrong. He says how we do it.  Well, now the abortionists aren’t doing the proper screening so you have to put in a statute that you have to screen for all these scientifically proven risk factors and failure to do so is,  itself negligence.

Sarah (20:03)
Yeah, think that’s, Louisiana, have our body of  pro-life legislation, we’re working adding three bills in this session. One is to give victims of abortion, the woman or even the partner or the grandfather, the opportunity to file a civil lawsuit against the abortion provider. And that’s something we’re really excited about to be working on for the first time. Because as you said, we know that there are, there is aftermath of people that are suffering and that do need to have the opportunity to heard, have their voice heard, but also for justice to come to them even if it’s later.

Many of these women don’t want to necessarily talk about it, but they will want to pursue some kind of justice for themselves. And then also we have legislation to enhance our coerced abortion statute in Louisiana, which is something we’re really passionate about. I’m personally very passionate about because I know a lot about the dynamics of coercion. So as we move these things through the legislature, I think that there is hope for change in this regard and hope for voices of victims being heard.

Justice to be received. Now of course nobody can take away the pain that comes from having an abortion right? Nobody can remove that. But there things we can do to at least give that woman a voice today to say what I did was I was led incorrectly. I was lied to by this industry who told me that this was the solution for my problems and they didn’t do anything to help me, to assess mentally where I was and if I was in a place to make this decision or not.

So I’m hoping some of those things will motivate and change other areas of the country where we need to work on this. And I definitely think this is an issue, not just in states like ours, but states across the country. So, if there’s anything else you want to say about that, but…

David Reardon (21:45)
Yeah.

I’m just going say that ⁓ I think my advice to every pro-lifer is whenever you talk about the abortion issue, in fact a good way to bring up the abortion issue is just say, I never realized how much how many abortions are coerced and unsafe and how women feel so much pressure from circumstances or other people and all the pressures women face. I never realized how alienated they feel afterwards and how you know it’s hard for them to find help.

Basically wear your compassion on your sleeve and let people know that that this is actually common ground because we have to realize that most people who are pro-choice, truly are pro-choice. They’re very pro-woman they just feel like, well who am I to judge and they actually love women. So when you talk to them about women being coerced on unwanted abortions they’re like yeah we should stop that. That’s a common ground area where we can agree that no woman should ever feel she has to undergo an abortion and we should all share concern that if abortion takes place it shouldn’t be these dangerous, through the mail order abortion pills and things, that are so dangerous.

Building common ground with those who really care about women helps to expose the people who don’t care about women, the ones who want to protect the abortion industry at the expense of women, the ones who want to see as many abortions as possible, and are okay with being complicit in coerced abortions because it reduces the welfare rule or whatever.

We have to expose that mindset because they hide behind pro-choice rhetoric. There are still within our culture a lot of racist and classist people who see any woman who can be pressured into abortion as an opportunity to prevent one “useless eater” from being born into the world. So we need to expose them by challenging them to say, let’s make sure that all abortions are totally freely wanted. There’s no pressure to abort and there’s clear medical evidence of benefit. And that’s obviously the difficult part because there’s not ever there’s never evidence of benefit. Abortion carries far more risk than any benefits. And we have to challenge the other side to prove that they only do medically beneficial abortions just like the ophthalmologist who only does the surgery when there’s clear benefit.

Sarah (24:15)
And one of the things, one of the allies I think that should be recognized is that people, experts in domestic violence and domestic abuse know in some ways better, I think, than the pro-life community, that dynamics of control and abuse and intimidation, how that plays in a woman’s life. There are ways abusive people are abusive toward their partners or their family members that seems innocuous to other people that someone could catch right away. But these dynamics are something that’s been well researched and well studied for many years.

And understanding how DV victims survive or escape from an abusive person. So as the pro-life movement becomes more up-to-date with your research and up-to-date with research in general, they’ll begin to understand how to help these women to love them and to talk to them about their own free choice.

I would say one of the allies in the pro-life movement I would hope to be in the future would be those domestic violence experts who have spent a lot of time understanding the dynamics of control and intimidation and those factors impact a woman in that’s making the abortion decision. I mean, they’re very familiar with those and they’ve been studying those for many years to see that someone can be in an abusive situation that seems innocuous to the outside observer, meaning the outside observer can’t even tell that that person is in an abusive dynamic or they’re being pressured or coerced or forced to do something they don’t want to do. And that’s something I think the pro-life movement, with your research and with research like it, that we can help educate them on the situations that lead women into that abortion decision.

One of the I found in my research and in my life is that fear is a common denominator in the abortion decision. Women often choose abortion because of fear of the repercussions of what might happen to their other children, to their relationships, to their work situation. So alleviating some of those things and educating the public on those things are good first steps to try to address this problem. I would ask what would you say to the woman who’s had an abortion? What would you say how to help her grieve?

It’s another thing the community is always trying to provide resources for her. What do you think are some of the best resources out there for them?

David Reardon (26:57)

Well, most I would probably encourage first off reach out to your pregnancy help centers because most of them have a post-abortion recovery program or have referrals to therapists who have training in post-abortion recovery.

Probably the number one message is don’t be afraid and don’t and don’t cling to the guilt and grief.

God wants you find healing and wants you to recover and grow and learn from your experience from it. Post abortion and recovery isn’t forgetting about the abortion or forgetting about the child. It’s about putting your life together, becoming more effective and whole and healed so that you can use your experience and knowledge to help other people and to be a better person.

Sadly, the reason I mentioned that is because sometimes there is a tendency for some women to cling to the grief because they feel I owe it to my aborted baby to feel bad every day and remember every day and be depressed. And frankly, that’s temptation of the devil to hold people down, right? And he becomes the most fierce accuser after an abortion that  you are a killer, you’re bad, you’re not good. You know, if people knew what you were like, they’d still reject you.

That’s again why pro-life people, of course the most powerful witnesses in the pro-life movement are those who’ve had abortions, who are now out there talking about their testimony, they’re showing that they’re healed, they’re able to help other women, and they’re examples of here’s how you can become as you heal. Now I’m not saying every woman who’s had an abortion should be a public speaker, because for many, for a lot of family reasons, you might never talk about abortion, maybe not to public, but you should always have somebody you can talk to about it.

And you should always have pro-life friends who accept and understand you. For pro-lifers, we need to be very clear that we ⁓ condemn abortion as an act, but we don’t condemn the people involved. We want them to find healing and we discourage women from abortions, but we don’t never turn our backs on them. I know of post-pregnancy sidewalk pro-life sidewalk counselors who as women go and have abortion, they’re still given a card. If you have the abortion, come talk to me or we’re still available to help. I think that’s really ideal. That just because you don’t do what we want doesn’t mean we don’t love and care for you and are going to turn our back on you. So it’s very important for pro-lifers to make clear that we’re on the side of women, even if they’ve had an abortion, if they need help avoiding abortion. ⁓

We’re not dogmatic and judgmental and hateful as the media tries to portray us to be.

Sarah (29:49)
Right, and I work with Silent No More, a lot of talking that hidden shame and that grief and dealing with those things. I think one of the hard things in the pro-life community is because of that shame and that guilt, that sometimes stops people from sharing with others. Not necessarily in public setting, but just with others, their experience, and it stops them from getting the healing they could receive if they were able to get past those things. But there so many women just like a woman who’s had an abortion all of those ways. I think it’s one in three or one in four women have had one, in their lifetime.

So all of us know someone who’s had an abortion and need to be there with love and grace and offer them the forgiveness. They can get from that and have the ability to share that story with others. Because otherwise, as you mentioned, all the side effects of psychologically mental health problems that come from not dealing with that abortion are astronomical real for her.

David Reardon (30:41)
I think you made a great point and again something in terms of our talking points as we’re talking with other people, we should always say,I know people who’ve had abortions and I know what they’ve struggled through and I’ve watched them struggle with healing and I’m glad there’s programs out there to help them find healing. And you say those things to a group of people always assuming somebody in the group has had an abortion. Whenever we talk about abortion assume somebody there is hurting because of a past abortion and frame it the way you talk in a way that makes clear that

I’m not throwing stones at people. I’m somebody safe that you could talk to if you ever wanted to. I understand the grief that women face. I understand their need for resources and support. I may even know where to refer them. So we need to always be laying seeds that we’re not the judgmental people out there that people are portrayed. Because as you can imagine, imagine if you had an abortion, if you’ve had an abortion. The last person you’re going to talk to about it is somebody you perceive as Mr. and Mrs. Pro-Life, right?

Because you’re afraid of judgment. You’re already judging yourself and you’re afraid of somebody else dumping more on you. So you have to overcome that fear. Because fear, as you said, fear drives people towards abortion. Fear also drives women and men away from post-abortion healing. They’re afraid to open up their pain. They’re afraid to share what they’ve felt with others. So we need to start to try and remove those fear blocks and to demonstrate that you would be accepted, you’d be loved.

I know one post-abortive woman who gives talks at churches and she says she can always, first off that she has discovered that her witnessing in church about her abortion experience, she can see certain women out there in the congregation who are looking around at others saying, are they accepting her? Because if they can see if they accept her, then maybe they can accept me. So the secret of abortion, secret of being judged by people in your family and your church and your community or work, that fear, makes it disenfranchised grief. Something that you can’t share with others like most other grief. We’re able to share with others and people support us abortion is something that our culture is still too uncomfortable with now to make it safe to grieve and we that’s one of our goals ⁓ Which will continue well after ⁓ Abortion is ends.

There’s gonna be decades and decades of post-abortive women and men who need help and support and we need to get involved right now with creating a healing environment for them.

Sarah (33:15)
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much. I am so moved by your work. I think it’s really important work. I think that as the pro-life community becomes more educated on abortion coercion, we’ll be better equipped to help women in these situations because we’ll know some of the tools that they need to hear. of course, the pro-life movement has done an amazing job at trying to offer them support in any way when they face that decision that prices pregnancy. Understanding what they’re going through, understanding the predicaments they’re in helps us become better pro-life advocates. I really appreciate your time.

Thank you so much for coming on and I look forward to hopefully having you on again in the future.