Ben Clapper (00:12)
Hey everybody, welcome to the Pro-Life Pod. My name is Ben Clapper with Louisiana Right to Life and here on the Pro-Life Pod, we talk about all things in the pro-life movement in the great state of Louisiana. Today I have on with me

Inzina the policy director and attorney for Louisiana Right to Life based in our Lafayette office. Hey Erica, how you doing?

Erica Inzina (00:33)
Hey, Ben, good to see ya. Doing well.

Ben Clapper (00:35)
Good seeing you too across the state or two hours away. I’m in New Orleans at our office here. So good to talk with you today. We’re just coming off the 4th of July. How was your 4th of July?

Erica Inzina (00:39)

It was really good, but it was kind of mixed because we were excited to celebrate, we were excited about being out town for a little bit. We got the horrible news of what was going on in Texas. It was kind of hard. It was hard to feel good about celebrating when you knew that just hours away, something devastating and the worst news of a parent’s life.

or a family’s life is happening. And so it was kind of, it was good, made me thankful for the moments that I had with my family, but also very sad. What about yours?

Ben Clapper (01:23)
Yeah, well, I just on that, you know, we both have a bunch of kids and I have four daughters and, you know, one of the heartbreaking things was seeing, I was, you know, just walking through a gas station and they had the TV on and they had some of the pictures of some of the kids. And I mean, I just thought, wow, those could be anyone’s kids, you know, kind of look like pictures that my daughters would have.

Erica Inzina (01:47)
.

Ben Clapper (01:48)
And just so sad, I can’t even imagine the heartbreak for those parents. so, yeah, just so tragic that that happened. Yeah, but otherwise, Fourth of July was good. Always fun to shoot off fireworks with my kids. Always a good time. yeah, everyone, we were fine. Everyone, all limbs are intact. So we’re good. We had a great time with my in-laws as well. So.

Erica Inzina (01:56)
there.

Ben Clapper (02:15)
You know, and also on the 4th of July, another reason to celebrate was that President Trump signed the big, beautiful bill, as he so lovingly calls it, and that was signed into law.

Erica Inzina (02:16)
Good night.

in a way that only President Trump could, know, who else would call it that? But yeah, that was exciting too. And it was, I remember exactly where I was sitting there tuning in to watch it happen. yeah, so it was a memorable 4th of July altogether, but on the big beat, hold on.

Ben Clapper (02:32)
Absolutely.

And it’s always, it’s

so cool to see Mike Johnson, Speaker of the House standing right next to President Trump and Congressman Steve Scalise. Congressman Scalise is my Congressman, of course, Speaker Johnson, longtime friend of Louisiana Right to Life. Just so proud to see them being the leaders that they are in DC. And from the beginning, making sure that

Erica Inzina (02:51)
Yes.

Ben Clapper (03:09)
What was really important for us, which in that bill was the defunding of the abortion industry of Planned Parenthood was in there. So I’m right at the top. Just kudos to especially to Mike Johnson and Steve Scalise for their leadership in that bill.

Erica Inzina (03:25)
Yeah, you know, I know we’re going to talk about their leadership in that bill in just a second. But before we do, I wanted to say it’s so funny. I was sitting there with Daisy, my oldest daughter, who had the opportunity to meet Mike Johnson in D.C. this past January. you know, when President Trump, I think he called him out and said, you know, great, great job, you guys. And the other guy that was also instrumental, I can’t remember his name off the top of my head. But Daisy sat there and said, oh, my gosh.

I’ve met him. I think that’s my biggest flex. I was like, that’s right. you should. So she was pretty proud to have gotten to meet him and shake his hand and take a picture with him and then get to see him celebrated. Although of course, you know, doing what we do, we see him in the spotlight a lot. So, but that was cool for her.

Ben Clapper (04:12)
Absolutely, yeah, that’s a good experience and Daisy’s her own pro-life advocate. ⁓

Erica Inzina (04:18)
Or is. Yeah.

Ben Clapper (04:20)
Well, you know, after the bill was signed, I actually had a couple people ask me a question, and that’s kind of why I wanted to talk to you on this podcast, because I think there’s other people asking this question around Louisiana. And I think the people, especially pro-life people, want to know, how do I answer this question, and how do I talk about that? And the question put to me was, OK, in Louisiana, Planned Parenthood doesn’t do abortions, so why do we care about defrauding?

Erica Inzina (04:42)
you

Ben Clapper (04:49)
funding

them? What’s the big deal with that? so I thought we’d talk today and discuss, what’s the best way to answer that? What are some of the reasons? Why do we care so much?

Erica Inzina (05:00)
Yeah, well, you know, first to back up a little bit, what I want to make sure is clear is that Planned Parenthood got a lot of name recognition, I guess, in this bill. But the bill doesn’t just defund Planned Parenthood. It defunds or it prohibits tax dollars or government money from going to businesses that provide and promote abortions. So of course, Planned Parenthood is the most notable of all of them.

But it’s not really just Planned Parenthood. It’s just the name that we keep saying. And of course, we are thrilled that Planned Parenthood and their atrocity will no longer receive taxpayer funding, at least for the next year. And then we’ll keep working hard to make sure that that continues.

Ben Clapper (05:43)
Yeah, well, and that’s a good point you bring up. In fact, people have asked me, why is it just for one year? That’s been because it is under the law for one year. And the reason is that the Senate parliamentarian, I guess, when the US Senate considers a reconciliation bill of this magnitude, there’s a parliamentarian in the US Senate. And that parliamentarian is deciding what parts of the bill can be.

Erica Inzina (05:50)
Thank

Ben Clapper (06:07)
are appropriate to the Senate rules. guess there’s some body of Senate rules out there. And that parliamentarian determined that because this is a tax bill and not a policy bill or a normal maybe law that’s just separate, but because this gets through the filibuster, it would only allow the policy for one year, which would mean Congress would have to come back next year and re-up that or re-institute that. So the first draft of the bill was for 10

Erica Inzina (06:28)
Yeah.

Ben Clapper (06:36)
years and then it got moved down to one year, which certainly we’d have much rather it be 10 years. Of course, this is the first time in decades that Planned Parenthood has been defunded. So it’s a great step in the right direction, even if it’s only for one year right now.

Erica Inzina (06:44)
Yeah.

If I’m not mistaken, correct me if I’m wrong, we know a whole lot more about the Louisiana legislative process, but is it not true that they could come back at a later time when they kind of revisit the budget or whatever, whenever they do that, I imagine that’s an ongoing process, that they could come back and put back in the provision that defends them for the full 10 years. Is that right? Do I understand that right?

Ben Clapper (07:13)
⁓

I believe so. I they’re going to have to come back and pass a budget every year, just like Congress always does, whether it’s through continuing resolutions or whatever funding mechanism that they pass to make it happen. They could at that time, or there’s… And it’s kind of the same way for those… This gets into the weeds a little bit, but the Hyde Amendment is the provision in the federal government that prevents tax dollars from actually paying directly for an abortion. That has to be…

Erica Inzina (07:33)
Okay.

Ben Clapper (07:40)
passed in the budget in DC every year. So this is kind of in line with that. This, course, expands on the Hyde Amendment and says not only you cannot…

spend money for abortion directly, but for a business or a nonprofit that does abortion, sells abortions, those entities can’t receive tax dollars, no matter what they’re using it for. And I mean, it’s the principle that in America, our tax dollars and entities that sell abortion, there should be a firewall between them and that money shouldn’t pass between them.

Erica Inzina (08:15)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we get that question a lot. Like, isn’t the Hyde Amendment still in place? And, you know, I know that can come and go, but depending on who is in office and the administration’s desires and so forth. yeah, I mean, I think that gets into one of our main objections to the funding of Planned Parenthood altogether, which is that we know that funding them in any capacity, even if we’re not funding their abortions, we are giving them money that offsets

expenses they would otherwise have so that they can use their money elsewhere for what they really want to spend it on. yeah, whether we’re directly funding abortions or not, we are feeding their machine and greasing their wheels, and that’s not something that taxpayers should have to do. Yeah.

Ben Clapper (08:56)
That’s right.

That’s right,

because Planned Parenthood, their last annual report showed that they did 402,000 abortions across the country. So that’s like a third or maybe almost a half of all the abortions in America that Planned Parenthood is doing themselves. And that’s only in one year, 400,000 abortions at the same time. What is it? Something like they’re receiving $800 million of taxpayer money?

Erica Inzina (09:17)
Mm-hmm.

Yep. And you know what’s interesting too? I read in some of the opposition that Planned Parenthood put out to the big, beautiful bill,

they were talking about how they would have to close a lot of centers around the country, but they put lot of emphasis on the fact that they’d have to close centers in places where abortion is still legal, which shows us that they are still very much relying on our taxpayer dollars to continue providing abortions, even if it’s not direct.

Ben Clapper (09:53)
Well, and you know, here’s an idea of Planned Parenthood. Stop doing abortions and then you wouldn’t lose your tax dollars. I mean, it’s a very easy proposition here. I mean, the bill’s very clear. If you want tax dollars, stop doing abortions. If you don’t want tax dollars, continue to do abortions. So if Planned Parenthood would just wake up today and say, you know what, we’re going to continue all the health services that we’re doing and we’re going to stop abortion, then

Federal government would continue to pay their Medicaid contracts, but clearly, as we know, Planned Parenthood is all about abortion. One of the most amazing statistics I’ve seen is that Planned Parenthood has decreased all its other services over the past 10 years. mean, consistently, all their other services has decreased. At the same time, abortion has increased almost in the inverse of an increase, if that even makes sense, something like that. I mean, all signs point

Erica Inzina (10:47)
Yeah.

Ben Clapper (10:49)
to it’s all about abortion for Planned Parenthood.

Erica Inzina (10:52)
and they say that. And like in their most recent annual report, it shows that their other health services dropped by 70%. You know, the other health services that they claim are so vital and that they are their reason for existence, like cancer screenings and pap smears and so on and so forth, they’ve dropped by 70%. So that just goes to show everybody that they are, not that vital in providing that type of care, and two, that again, they’re

real main goal is to be able to continue to provide abortions.

Ben Clapper (11:24)
That’s right. And I think one thing that people say, well, they don’t do abortions in Louisiana. And I even think going back a step and for us to say, that Planned Parenthood absolutely wants to do abortions in Louisiana. I mean, it’s not like they’ve made some benevolent decision that we’re not going to do abortions in Louisiana. I mean, we know that is bogus.

Erica Inzina (11:36)
yeah.

Yeah, let’s be clear, if they could, if our state laws allowed for them to and the provisions in the areas that they do operate, which are only two, by the way, I mean, let’s be clear, it’s not like they’re scattered throughout our state providing services to all of our most vulnerable population. They’re in New Orleans and Baton Rouge. But yeah, I mean, even if those areas would allow for it, you know that they would certainly be providing abortions. So yeah, that’s a good point. Let’s be honest about this.

Ben Clapper (12:11)
Yeah. Going back to 2015

when they were building their abortion facility in New Orleans, and people probably forget this fact or maybe don’t know it, but they built that facility on Claiborne Avenue in New Orleans, and they had to fill out what’s called a facility need review with the Department of Health by justifying why they’re doing the building and everything. Well, in that document that we were able to obtain at that time, they stated…

that that facility needed to be able to provide 2,844 abortions per year. They called that the, quote, “unmet need” for abortions in New Orleans and the region. so they had a whole strategic plan about the number of abortions that needed to happen in New Orleans. And so it was always their intention to do abortions there. Yeah, like you said, our laws, our state leaders, the community,

because of that, they’ve never done an abortion there. yeah, so remind everybody, remember everybody, they want to do abortions, but they shouldn’t get tax dollars in if they’re not doing abortions because it feeds their national abortion machine and subsidizes more abortions. those tax dollars that go into Planned Parenthood in Louisiana are helping a national abortion machine.

Erica Inzina (13:29)
That’s really sinister too, that they would put a number on the number of abortions that they felt needed to happen before they knew that they needed to happen. There’s something about that that really doesn’t sit well with me. It’s kind of like a quota, you know? ⁓ That’s gross. It’s gross.

Ben Clapper (13:43)
Yeah. They came

to New Orleans with the mission to increase abortions and they almost wanted to squeeze out of New Orleans as many abortions as could be done. So thank God they’ve never been able to do that.

Erica Inzina (13:58)
Yeah, well, I mean, that’s a first really good point is that even if they’re not performing abortions here, we know that funding them is continuing to feed their machine. And we shouldn’t have to do that as taxpayers. But another thing that, and this is very clear in their most recent annual report too, another reason that we care about keeping them defunded here in Louisiana is that they purposely subvert our laws and spend money to send

our people, our citizens out of state for abortions and to promote abortion pills online. And we shouldn’t be paying for that. We shouldn’t be funding that.

Ben Clapper (14:34)
That’s right.

Yeah, there’s no reason our tax dollars, our state’s been clear, our legislators passed laws that are protecting life. And you go to Planned Parenthood Gulf Coast, the local affiliate, you go to their website. And the first thing you see is we’re going to help you go find an abortion elsewhere or let you know how to get an abortion pill in your mail. You know, things that the abortion pills sent here are definitely illegal and dangerous for women as we’ve talked and shared and discussed in other, you know, in other podcasts and things like

Erica Inzina (14:54)
Okay.

Ben Clapper (15:04)
that. So I mean, yeah, they are out to subvert our state, the mission of our state. And I mean, if they’re going to do that, they shouldn’t receive our tax dollars. And that’s what now is going to happen.

Erica Inzina (15:16)
Yeah, exactly. And that makes me think of another good point too, which is that, you know, in the larger abortion scheme or the larger scheme of Planned Parenthood nationally, they’re really a political machine. know, their political and litigation budget is so much more than the money that they spend on health care.

You know, they throw a few little dollars at their affiliates throughout the states to provide this healthcare. And in my mind, it’s like so that they can stay relevant, so that they can say, like, look at all the good stuff we’re doing. But at the end of the day, they are spending way more money on their political advocacy and litigation that where they’re going into states and challenging state laws and creating a ruckus because of the state laws that have been passed there.

For example, I have a number here too. So in the last election cycle, they spent $70 million trying to elect pro-abortion politicians and trying to put abortion measures on the ballot and defeat other measures that went against their goal of making abortion freely available everywhere. And you know, also they received, after

Roe versus Wade was overturned in 2022. They had an influx of donations, which is fine. You know, if that’s where people want to donate their money, that’s up to them. They received $498 million in donations in 2022, but their bylaws, their national bylaws, kind of dictate how that money is spent. That did not go to their facilities. That did not go to providing better care, better facilities, better training for the…

healthcare providers that they have in their facilities, it went toward their political efforts. And that’s really sad, especially, I’m sure you read the New York Times article about Planned Parenthood.

Ben Clapper (17:08)
Yeah. All

that leads to kind of the next point, know, of Planned Parenthood shouldn’t receive our tax dollars because they don’t provide good care, even in the non-abortion side of things. And not only is it not provide good care, it’s not comprehensive, and there are other better alternatives out there to Planned Parenthood for the other services that

Erica Inzina (17:18)
Right.

Ben Clapper (17:31)
may people may want

the New York Times? It talked about when people that were suing Planned Parenthood because of bad care, other things, right? That were

Erica Inzina (17:39)
yeah, it was

really startling. were many examples of botched IUD placements. In one situation, they placed an IUD in a woman who was pregnant but didn’t perform a pregnancy test before that. I think she was like three or four months pregnant. And of course, the baby died shortly thereafter or was stillborn.

you know, situations like that. And one of the things that was startling to me too is that we don’t hear a lot about this because they require their patients who have these bad experiences but then, you know, get a settlement or compensation of some sort. They require them to sign these non-disclosure agreements where they’re legally bound to not talk about what happened to them. So…

not only are they providing bad care, but they’re putting a lid on it, a legal lid on it to keep people from talking about that bad care. But the New York Times article, I mean it was, it was startling talking about, and even talking about how the people who work in the facilities say, you know, they are underpaid, they have begged for more resources, they’ve begged for more supplies, for upgrades in their facilities, and the answer they always get met with is, we can’t afford it. When they have

millions in their war chest to fight pro-life laws and to sue pro-life states and to fund their litigation and political machines. So it’s really disturbing.

Ben Clapper (19:05)
Yeah.

Well, you know, there’s comprehensive federally qualified health clinics in Louisiana, in New Orleans and Baton Rouge, parish health units that provide other care and support.

that are these are all receive Medicaid funding already. so I mean, and again, like you said earlier, it’s not like Planned Parenthood is in some rural area in Louisiana that is a healthcare desert. They’re in Baton Rouge and New Orleans, which are the highest density of other alternatives to them for healthcare. I mean, they just not needed in Louisiana. Yeah.

Erica Inzina (19:21)
you

Yeah,

and you know what’s interesting too about the federally qualified health care centers and I’m sure the same for like state-funded health centers, community health centers, is that they are held to a very high standard.

So the quality of care that you get there is highly regulated and in some situations even more so than just a private doctor’s office. So they have to meet some pretty high standards and expectations. so yeah, to your point, not only are there many other options, but they’re better. You’re get better care there and more comprehensive care without feeding this machine that kills.

that is intent on killing.

Ben Clapper (20:21)
Yeah, so Planned Parenthood is a national abortion machine. We shouldn’t subsidize them. They are subverting our laws. We shouldn’t subsidize them with our tax dollars. They’re providing poor care. We shouldn’t subsidize them. And they are an election machine fighting pro-life laws. Our tax dollars shouldn’t go to them. That’s why in Louisiana, we care about defunding Planned Parenthood. And that’s why

Erica Inzina (20:37)
Thank you.

Ben Clapper (20:46)
any person that has any concern about there being an abortion machine in America should be concerned about keeping your tax dollars away from Planned Parenthood. you know, that’s it. And for us in Louisiana, after the Medina Supreme Court case, even though that big, beautiful bill is for one year,

I believe and I hope certainly that this is the end of funding of Planned Parenthood in Louisiana for good. I know over the past five years something like $5.1 million is the amount of Medicaid money that they’ve received. this certainly should be the end of that money.

Erica Inzina (21:21)
Yeah, and we wouldn’t be, you know, radicals in making that happen. Texas has already, in their own state, defunded Planned Parenthood, and so has Arkansas, our neighbors. you know, it’s not like we would be the one and only state that’s implementing this brutal policy, you know, which of course we would argue is much needed and very justified. But to the point, there are other states who in our area.

who have done this as well and I think we should push for that as well.

Ben Clapper (21:52)
Yeah. And look, mean, even if someone out there, even if they support abortion, even if they support Planned Parenthood, I think it’s reasonable for even people who disagree with us to come to the opinion that when half the country thereabouts is pro-life and opposes abortion in many of its forms, that we should agree that tax dollars shouldn’t go to those entities.

Certainly, they would argue on other ways about that as well. So, and just to remind everybody that we have a website, FindHelpLA.com. It’s available and people can search by zip code, health services near them, pregnancy centers, and other federally qualified health centers, and all kinds of other resources that can help and care for women and families in Louisiana. So Erica, any final thoughts before we finish up today?

Erica Inzina (22:41)
I’m excited that this has finally happened. I’m sure all of our pro-life friends here in the state and around the country are in agreement with that and excited to keep moving the ball forward to getting women real care and real resources and real alternatives. our tax dollars should not be used to influence our elections.

Ben Clapper (23:02)
That’s right.

Erica Inzina (23:02)
not how this works.

Ben Clapper (23:04)
Yeah. All right. Well, Erica, thanks for joining me today. Enjoy the afternoon in Lafayette. And everybody on behalf of our team at Louisiana Right to Life, we’ll see you on the next episode of the Pro-Life Thought. Have a good one.

Erica Inzina (23:07)
first.